Complicated discussions.

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Continued from here.

"I'd imagine that's true," Wesley said. "I would like to point out that there are plenty of people -- with souls -- who do horrible things. Mass murderers, serial killers. The presence of a soul isn't an indication of inherent goodness, and it's not the part of you that prevents you from doing evil. That comes from within." Spontaneously, he moved his hand to Spike's chest, feeling it, cool and strong, beneath his palm.

Comments

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"Yeah, that worked so well before I got the soul," Spike said bitterly. "I tried, but I got it all wrong."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"But you tried," Wesley said, pulling his hand back. "You think other people don't get things wrong? You know that's not true. One could point out the murder of one's father, for example."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Spike looked over at Wesley again, already missing his touch. "Without my soul I couldn't get it right." He wasn't sure, given recent events, that he could with it, either. "I'm not saying it didn't mean something that I tried at all, but it didn't make me good," he said. "And you didn't murder your father, but even if you had it would've been the right thing to do."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Ignoring the part about his father, Wesley said, "You seem to be forgetting that you helped Buffy and her friends for some time without the soul."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"I'm not forgetting that," Spike said. "I wanted to be good. I just wasn't."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"But if you helped them, you were good," Wesley said, frustrated by how Spike seemed incapable of grasping this simple fact.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"No, I did something good," Spike replied, just as frustrated. "There's a difference."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"Weren't you doing it because it was the right thing to do? Because you wanted to help?" Wesley was confused now.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"Most of the time," Spike said with a slightly self-conscious half-shrug. "But it didn't change what I was. I thought it did, but..." He shook his head and looked down at his hands for a moment before meeting Wesley's eyes again. "I thought getting the soul would change things, too, but it didn't take anything away. It just added more. All the evil is still in there, and I don't know why you don't see that."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"Because I have faith in you," Wesley said, putting his hands over Spike's and squeezing reassuringly. "Because I see how hard you're trying -- and how often you succeed. And I love you."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Wesley's belief in his words was clear in his eyes, and Spike couldn't look away. He turned his hands in Wesley's to hold onto them, too overwhelmed by gratitude shadowed by a fear that he couldn't live up to those expectations to speak. "I love you, too," he said softly when he trusted that his voice wouldn't shake. "But I still think you're fooling yourself."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"Then, with all due respect, you're wrong." Wesley smiled hopefully. "You'll have to trust that I know what I'm talking about." Of course, he was still utterly convinced that in the long run Spike would need things he couldn't provide, but he was too selfish to let Spike go.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"I trust you," Spike said. Even though he was having trouble reconciling Wesley and Buffy's view of him with what he actually was, he knew that much.

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Unsure if that was really true, Wesley said, "I want you to." His head was aching again -- had been the whole time, actually, and he'd just been ignoring it. Letting go of only one of Spike's hands, he turned and picked up one of the water bottles from the bedside table and took a quick drink.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Spike looked away as Wesley drank, not wanting to think about his mouth or the movements of his neck as he swallowed. "I do. I can't tell you how important that is to me."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Wesley put the bottle back. "Are you sure it's important enough that the other things don't matter?"

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"What do you mean?" Spike asked, glancing over. "There's nothing that's a problem. Not with you."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"Well there certainly aren't any with you," Wesley said, frowning.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Spike wondered how Wesley could point out flaws in him one minute and not admit that they exist the next. "Right, I'm a bleeding paragon of perfection. I was just trying to be modest for a change."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Taking a chance, Wesley leaned over and kissed Spike's shoulder quickly. "You're perfect to me. That's what matters."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"Thank you," Spike said softly, giving Wesley a faint smile. He was afraid that Wesley's skewed beliefs about him were blinding him to reality, but it was encouraging to hear at that moment. "You're perfect to me, too. I've never met anyone quite like you."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Wesley laughed painfully, not having realized unitl that moment how perilously close he still was to hysteria. "I'd imagine that would be a good thing."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Spike was quite serious when he replied. "Only because I value you more."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"Don't," Wesley said, rubbing the back of his neck self-consciously with a hand that trembled. "I make mistakes constantly. I'm very, very far from perfect."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"If you think I'm perfect, love, I'm allowed to feel the same way about you," Spike said, smiling more genuinely than he would have thought he could. "It goes both ways."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"You can think it. Just don't talk about it," Wesley said. "Unless you prefer me an emotional wreck."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Just that easily, Spike had mis-stepped, said the wrong thing without even realizing. "I'm sorry," he said, his face falling.

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"No, love..." Wesley put his arms around Spike, pulling him close. "I was joking. Well, not entirely, but for the most part. You can say anything you like to me, including telling me that I'm perfect and wonderful -- it's not that I don't enjoy hearing it. I do."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"You can be very hard to follow," Spike said a bit hopelessly as he let himself lean into Wesley's embrace. "Or I could be especially slow this morning."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"I don't know what to do with compliments," Wesley tried to explain. "They make me feel... confused. I like them, but I don't like the power they have over me."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Sliding his arm loosely around Wesley's waist, Spike said, "I don't say them to try to get power over you, pet. I say them because they're true."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"Oh, I know." Wesley looked at Spike apologetically, grateful that his embrace was being returned. "I didn't think you were attempting to manipulate me. It's my issue, not anyone else's." Of course, he suspected he knew why he was like this, but he wasn't sure there was anything he could do about it.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"I don't want to stop telling you how I feel about you," Spike said after a moment's hesitation. His instincts were most likely wrong and unquestionably had the selfish component of hating to bottle up his feelings, but he felt certain that Wesley needed more praise and not less.

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"You shouldn't," Wesley said. "And I shouldn't have asked you to. As long as you don't mind dealing with whatever fall-out there might be... and I suppose in time there might be less and less."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"I already said I wouldn't talk that way in public," Spike reminded him. "But when it's just the two of us I want to be able to tell you. I want to say it, and I think you need to hear it." He watched Wesley's face, hoping that he would agree with Spike's assessment of the situation.

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Wesley looked at Spike, reassured by Spike's expression and tone of voice. "You're probably right."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Relieved that he wouldn't have to hide his feelings or have them rejected like he had experienced with Buffy for so long, Spike smiled and hugged Wesley a bit closer. "I want you to see what I see in you. You're too hard on yourself."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"So are you," Wesley said, turning his head and brushing his lips over Spike's ear. "God." He closed his eyes, trying to relax now that he had Spike in his arms.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Spike considered arguing that he apparently wasn't hard enough on himself, but it didn't seem worth the energy. "I criticize everyone else, too, so you should believe me when I point out all the good things about you. I know what I'm talking about." He finally let himself put his other arm around Wesley, worried about holding on more tightly than he should but needing to give and receive tangible comfort.

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"I'll try," Wesley promised. The fear that Spike might leave -- perhaps not at that moment, but at some point -- made him tighten his arms around Spike.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"There's no rush," Spike said, gently stroking Wesley's back. "I'll keep telling you 'til you do."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Wesley sighed, trying to accept Spike's comfort as he actually needed it a great deal. "I love you," he said. "I think we should create a rule against arguing with each other."

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

"Think it'll work?" Spike asked. "Some things we're never going to agree on."

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

"I know." Subdued, Wesley didn't say anything else, just held Spike to him, cool body against his own, and breathed.

[flaming-muse.livejournal.com]

Continues here (http://www.livejournal.com/community/reality_bends/55267.html).